in this conversation, you’ll learn:
why traditional growth channels stopped working in a saturated software economy.
how ecosystem-led product growth creates durable dependency instead of rented attention.
how ai turns integrations into the new distribution layer.
why the network itself has become the real product.
where to find prayerson:
in this episode, we cover:
(0:00 – 2:07) the collapse of the old growth engine
why paid ads, seo, and outbound no longer scale sustainably.
how attention became the most expensive and crowded resource.
(2:07 – 5:01) infinite software supply
how ai and cloud collapsed the cost of building products.
why every category is now flooded with near-identical tools.
(5:01 – 7:12) the attention tax
how auction dynamics drive customer acquisition costs out of control.
why trial fatigue makes conversion and retention harder.
(7:12 – 9:31) feature parity and churn
how rapid imitation flattened differentiation.
why easy onboarding also made switching dangerously easy.
(9:31 – 10:14) the pivot to dependency
why interruption based growth breaks when attention is saturated.
how durable growth now comes from embedding into workflows.
(10:14 – 11:36) what elpg really means
how growth moves from landing pages into software itself.
why users arrive through necessity rather than persuasion.
(11:36 – 13:15) shopify’s ecosystem flywheel
how third-party apps acquire and qualify users for the core platform.
why the storefront becomes the business’s operational nervous system.
(13:15 – 14:21) salesforce as infrastructure
how app exchange turns crm into an enterprise backbone.
why partners fund feature depth that the core team never could.
(14:21 – 15:55) slack and figma as connected layers
how integrations convert tools into operating systems.
why plugins and bots increase switching costs across teams.
(15:55 – 17:55) elpg vs product-led growth
how plg fights for attention while elpg inherits it.
why being pulled into workflows beats being discovered.
(17:55 – 19:44) network dependency
how multiple integrations compound switching costs.
why ecosystems behave like nervous systems rather than apps.
(19:44 – 21:07) ai intensifies lock-in
how agents require real-time access to connected systems.
why ai turns integrations into operational necessity.
(21:07 – 23:06) google and microsoft’s advantage
how native access to email, docs, and data creates default ai distribution.
why embedded intelligence beats standalone ai tools.
(23:06 – 24:37) the elpg growth loop
how integrations drive usage, dependency, and lifetime value.
why quality of customers compounds before quantity.
(24:37 – 26:12) marketplaces as growth engines
how two-sided platforms attract developers and users simultaneously.
why ecosystems outscale linear marketing spend.
(26:12 – 28:03) the economics of connectivity
how integrated customers spend more and churn less.
why marketplaces fund continuous product expansion.
(28:03 – 30:03) acquisition without advertising
how partners bring in pre-qualified users.
why platforms avoid the attention auction entirely.
(30:03 – 31:49) ai changes distribution
how agents invoke tools instead of browsing websites.
why availability and compatibility replace persuasion.
(31:49 – 34:13) infrastructure as the new moat
how being callable by ai defines relevance.
why disconnected tools become invisible to machines.
(34:13 – 36:15) ecosystems as competitive fortresses
how layered integrations create massive exit costs.
why platforms outlast better standalone products.
(36:15 – 38:33) designing for elpg
how api first architecture enables partner adoption.
why products must be built around workflows, not screens.
(38:33 – 40:29) ecosystem-driven growth strategy
how integrations replace traditional marketing channels.
why partners become an extension of the product team.
(40:29 – 41:30) the new definition of pmf
why other software needing you matters more than users liking you.
how structural embedding creates generational advantage.
(41:30 – 42:32) measuring real ecosystem strength
how integration-sourced users reveal true leverage.
why net revenue retention signals dependency.
(42:32 – 43:15) the future of software
how ai agents will dominate workflow execution.
why only deeply embedded products will survive the machine economy.
